Legislature(2003 - 2004)

03/18/2004 08:03 AM House STA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 459-PAPER TRAIL FOR ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINE                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 1199                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WEYHRAUCH  announced that  the next  order of  business was                                                               
HOUSE BILL  NO. 459, "An  Act requiring an auditable  paper trail                                                               
for electronic  voting machines;  and providing for  an effective                                                               
date."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 1180                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LES GARA, Alaska  State Legislature, as sponsor of                                                               
HB 459,  stated that the one  cross check that the  United States                                                               
has had for  200 years is that, after somebody  votes, there is a                                                               
paper record  of how that  person voted.   He said  that machines                                                               
are  now  being  used  -  the State  of  Alaska  having  recently                                                               
purchased 55 of them  - that leave no paper record  of votes.  He                                                               
called it  a radical departure  from anything the state  has ever                                                               
done.   He emphasized  the importance of  having a  paper record.                                                               
Representative Gara reported that  in Alaska, many elections have                                                               
been close.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GARA  offered an  example of  an election  where a                                                               
candidate lost by 16 percent of  the vote and someone asked for a                                                               
recount, but the  Division of Elections said no.   The reason the                                                               
recount  couldn't be  made  was because  there  was no  available                                                               
paper trail.   At that point, he explained, the  only way to tell                                                               
whether  the vote  was accurate  would be  to check  the computer                                                               
code that  was used to  calculate and  tally the vote.   However,                                                               
across  the country,  when people  ask  to look  at the  computer                                                               
code,  they are  being told  by the  computer companies  that the                                                               
code is  a trade secret.   The outcome is that  the [true] result                                                               
[of the election] is never known.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA  stated  that these  [voting]  machines  are                                                               
needed for  people with certain handicaps.   He said HB  459 will                                                               
require  that  when  Alaska  starts  using  the  machines,  those                                                               
machines  must  produce  a  paper   trail.    He  noted  that  in                                                               
California, that requirement is going  to go into effect in 2005.                                                               
He  said the  Division of  Elections in  Alaska reports  that the                                                               
technology to  make the new  machines produce a paper  trail will                                                               
be available by "the 2006 election."                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 1048                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WEYHRAUCH opened public testimony.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 1000                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
WILLIAM COLE, M.D., testifying on  behalf of himself, opined that                                                               
a reliable  voting system is  essential to a  democratic process.                                                               
Furthermore,  confidence in  the system  is also  essential.   He                                                               
noted  that many  have cited  that electronic  systems have  been                                                               
easily  hacked into  and outcomes  have been  changed.   Dr. Cole                                                               
related  an article  in The  New  York Times,  dated January  31,                                                             
2004, which reported  that the State of  Maryland contracted with                                                               
a  computer security  firm to  check out  a [voting]  system, and                                                               
"they" easily were  able to hack into the  machine, change votes,                                                               
and "take over the process."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 0952                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DR.  COLE  stated  that  obviously  this  issue  is  nonpartisan.                                                               
Notwithstanding that,  he said it  didn't aide his  confidence in                                                               
the  system when  he heard  that the  manufacturer named  Diebold                                                               
[Election Systems  ("Diebold")] said  that the  Maryland security                                                               
study validates  the Diebold election  systems equipment  for the                                                               
north's primary.   He  added that  it also  didn't help  that the                                                               
head of the  company has been "quoted to be  able to deliver Ohio                                                               
to the current sitting President in the next election."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
DR. COLE stated  he would support the basic aspects  of [HB 459],                                                               
that any system  must have a physically verifiable  paper trail -                                                               
verifiable by the  voter at the time  of the vote and  later at a                                                               
recount.   He stated his belief  that a public process,  "such as                                                               
this," should  have access to  the proprietary  software involved                                                               
in the  machines proposed by the  private companies.  He  said he                                                               
thinks  a  generous  recount  requirement   "is  involved."    He                                                               
remarked  that it  does  no good  to  have a  paper  trail if  it                                                               
prohibits having  a count to  a mere  1 percent difference.   Dr.                                                               
Cole also stated his belief that  this issue is so important that                                                               
it must  go into effect  immediately as  opposed to some  date in                                                               
the future.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 0869                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DR. COLE  concluded that  he has  been proud  of the  system that                                                               
Alaska  has had  [to date],  and he  said he  feels that  helping                                                               
handicapped [voters]  would certainly not be  insurmountable with                                                               
the present system.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 0851                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR WEYHRAUCH asked Dr. Cole if  he has any knowledge in regard                                                               
to the  current accessibility to voting  available to handicapped                                                               
individuals.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR. COLE  answered he doesn't.   He added, "It's yet  to be shown                                                               
to  me   how  you  could   use  the  electronic   system  without                                                               
assistance."                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 0821                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MARILYN  RUSSELL, testifying  on behalf  of herself,  stated that                                                               
her goal is  to see that Alaska's voting system  is competent and                                                               
reliable, as well as admired  and respected, and that it maintain                                                               
that reputation.   She said when many Americans  think of Alaska,                                                               
they  think  of  a  beautiful, unique  frontier  with  indigenous                                                               
people  -  [a  place  where people  are]  independent  and  think                                                               
outside the  box.  Ms.  Russell encouraged setting up  the voting                                                               
machines from the  beginning to be accurate and  dependable.  She                                                               
stated that  there should be  no chance of  possible wrong-doing:                                                               
no software glitch, no system  hacker, no possible fraud, and not                                                               
even the least  bit of doubt in a voter's  mind that his/her vote                                                               
might be skewed.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS. RUSSELL said  she has done some homework and  found that even                                                               
though systems have been checked  out by many independent people,                                                               
the ultimate results  of the votes have been dubious.   She said,                                                               
"If there  were ever a problem,  I cringe to think  of the amount                                                               
of time, effort,  anguish, and money that would be  needed to fix                                                               
the problem,  let alone the  credibility that would  cause havoc.                                                               
We want to have  a paper trail for these machines.   Our state is                                                               
on the way up; let's not mar its progress."                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 0722                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE HOLM thanked Ms. Russell for her testimony.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 0702                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SANDRA  ZIRNHELD, testifying  on behalf  of herself,  stated that                                                               
while  there are  many assurances  from manufacturers  that their                                                               
software works, she  would cite five examples out  of many recent                                                               
malfunctions.  She continued as follows:                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     [In]  Broward  County,  Florida,  this  January,  in  a                                                                    
     single race election, there was  only one thing to mark                                                                    
     on  the ballot.    A hundred  and  thirty four  ballots                                                                    
     registered no  vote.  The  winner won by only  12 votes                                                                    
     and,  although  Florida  law   requires  a  recount,  a                                                                    
     recount  was not  possible because  there was  no paper                                                                    
     trail.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     [In]  Fairfax   County,  Virginia,  November   2003,  a                                                                    
     republican school  board member lost her  at-large seat                                                                    
     in  a tight  race.   Voter complaints  about suspicious                                                                    
     behavior  of  machines  led  to  the  testing  of  some                                                                    
     machines,  which   showed  that  one   suspect  machine                                                                    
     subtracted a vote  from this candidate in  about one of                                                                    
     every hundred tries.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     [In]  Miami,  Dade   County,  Florida,  November  2002,                                                                    
     several  precincts  -  each  with  hundreds  of  voters                                                                    
     registered - tallied no votes cast.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     [In]  Boone  County,  Indiana,   November  2003,  in  a                                                                    
     district  with only  19,000 eligible  voters, of  which                                                                    
     only  5,352  voted,  the tally  came  up  with  140,000                                                                    
     votes.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     [In]  Muscogee  County,  [Georgia], November  4,  2003,                                                                    
     citizens who  voted no  on a  referendum issue  saw the                                                                    
     machine  register yes.   Officials  ended up  having to                                                                    
     take this machine out of service.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS.  ZIRNHELD stated  that this  is egregious,  and she  said she                                                               
wants to make  certain that nothing like this  happens in Alaska.                                                               
She encouraged  the committee to  look at  a June 2003  report by                                                               
computer  security  researchers  from   Johns  Hopkins  and  Rice                                                               
Universities,  that  showed  that  the software  on  the  Diebold                                                               
machine  lacked   even  the  most  basic   of  computer  security                                                               
[capabilities].  She indicated that  undergraduates in a computer                                                               
security class would  have failed if they had  written that code.                                                               
She called  it, "blatantly inept."   She revealed that  it scares                                                               
her that machines are so easily prone to fraud and manipulation.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0506                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. ZIRNHELD  stated that this issue  is not and should  not be a                                                               
partisan  one.   She  stated  that it  is  about the  fundamental                                                               
principal  which underlies  democracy;  it's  about ensuring  the                                                               
fact that  individuals elect  the people  who serve  in governing                                                               
positions.   Those officials  are put  there by  the will  of the                                                               
people,  not by  random  number generators.    She indicated  her                                                               
support of  the bill, and  opined that it should  be strengthened                                                               
with  a  provision  which  requires a  mandatory  spot  check  on                                                               
precincts.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  ZIRNHELD, in  addition to  her  forgone examples,  indicated                                                               
that there  are many examples  where many people  voting machines                                                               
have  malfunctioned  and voting  officials  had  to improvise  by                                                               
asking  people to  write  their votes  on slips  of  paper.   She                                                               
stated she wants  the upcoming Senate seat filled by  the vote of                                                               
the people, not by faulty machines.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 0425                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG told Ms.  Zirnheld that her testimony is                                                               
causing  him  to wonder  about  whether  the [electronic  voting]                                                               
systems should  be implemented  without being  thoroughly checked                                                               
out.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. ZIRNHELD  responded that all  the machines have  been checked                                                               
out.     She  noted  that  it   is  scary,  because  it   is  the                                                               
manufacturers that  are checking  them out and  giving assurances                                                               
[that the machines are in working order].                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GRUENBERG said  that  is what  is frightening  to                                                               
him.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0325                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE LYNN asked Ms. Zirnheld  to clarify whether or not                                                               
the machines are checked out by a third "uninterested" party.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS.  ZIRNHELD offered  her  "impression"  that the  manufacturers                                                               
check out  the code, while  independent parties "have  done other                                                               
kinds of testing."  She added,  "There have been other people who                                                               
have  been  testing,  ...  which  has  proved  that  there's  ...                                                               
problems with  these machines."   She offered  to do  research to                                                               
further answer Representative Lynn's question.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 0233                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  GARA,  on the  same  note,  said California,  for                                                               
example,  requires that  only approved  software be  used on  its                                                               
machines.  After making that  requirement, the state did an audit                                                               
and found out  that in 17 counties the approved  software was not                                                               
being  used.    He  described   the  situation  as  a  regulatory                                                               
nightmare,  where   it  is  necessary  to   have  state  computer                                                               
consultants spend their time to  ensure that each of the machines                                                               
is working  properly.   He said,  "We know that  that is  also an                                                               
area that can be fraught with error like it was in California."                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 0155                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
LUKE  HOPKINS, testifying  on behalf  of himself,  encouraged the                                                               
committee to move  [HB 459] out of committee, which  he said will                                                               
allow Alaska's  excellent voting system  to continue to  have the                                                               
important paper documentation  that it has currently.   He stated                                                               
that Alaska's system of vote recording  is one of the best in the                                                               
nation.   He said  the state  has developed  the system  at great                                                               
expense and should continue to  maintain its system of electronic                                                               
counting,  transmitting data,  and providing  a paper  record for                                                               
each vote.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HOPKINS  noted  that there  have  been  extremely  important                                                               
recounts  in Alaska.   He  indicated the  importance of  ensuring                                                               
that all parties are able to  oversee a recount that has accurate                                                               
and valid  information.   He opined  that the  added cost  to the                                                               
State of  Alaska and, possibly,  to the Division of  Elections to                                                               
ensure that  there is a  paper trail  is small, compared  to what                                                               
the state  has already  spent in  developing the  AccuVote system                                                               
that it has [acquired].                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 04-39, SIDE A                                                                                                            
Number 0001                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DORIS PFALMER,  testifying on  behalf of  herself, opined,  "In a                                                               
time   when  electronic   wizardry  is   commonplace,  ...   it's                                                               
imperative that  we have a receipt  ... and a paper  trail system                                                               
for  these machines."   She  stated that  many people  have cited                                                               
reasons to [pass HB 459] and  she cannot think of any reason "why                                                               
it wouldn't  automatically be put in  place."  She said  it seems                                                               
to be a "no-brainer."  She  said [the public] has seen "what they                                                               
can  do with  movies" and  "just about  anything electronically."                                                               
She concluded, "Paper rules, to me."                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 0147                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JENNIFER  RUDINGER, Executive  Director,  Alaska Civil  Liberties                                                               
Union (AkCLU),  told the  committee that  AkCLU met  recently and                                                               
spent a  great deal of  time deliberating  this issue.   She said                                                               
electronic  voting  and  "direct  recording  equipment"  are  new                                                               
technologies.   She  said,  "We  are very  wary  of  some of  the                                                               
concerns you've  already [heard] from folks  who've testified, as                                                               
well  as some  of  the actual  problems that  came  up on  'super                                                               
Tuesday'  and in  previous elections  where  these machines  were                                                               
implemented."  She indicated that  she would offer some points on                                                               
behalf of "a unanimous board of directors."                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RUDINGER  stated that  in  2002,  Alaska was  recognized  as                                                               
number one  in the  nation for  the best  electoral system.   She                                                               
said that  begs the question, "If  it ain't broke, why  are we in                                                               
such  a big  hurry  to fix  it?"   She  said  [AkCLU] shares  the                                                               
concerns  of  Representative  Gruenberg   and  others,  who  have                                                               
suggested  that perhaps  the machines  should not  be used  until                                                               
more testing  is done,  better security  is in  place, and  it is                                                               
certain  that   using  the  machines  will   not  compromise  the                                                               
integrity  of  the  state's  elections.    She  stated  that  the                                                               
integrity of the  voting process is fundamental  to the operation                                                               
of  the  democracy.   She  said  a  major  component of  a  valid                                                               
electoral  process   is  voting  technology  that   honestly  and                                                               
accurately  counts every  single  ballot.   She opined,  "Because                                                               
voting technologies have always  been susceptible to error, bias,                                                               
and corruption,  we must remain  vigilant about  new technologies                                                               
and  insist that  before they're  implemented, they  maximize the                                                               
likelihood of  recording what each  voter intends,  regardless of                                                               
the voter's race, economic status, or geographic location."                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. RUDINGER said  [the state] must require  that voting machines                                                               
be   accessible  to   all  voters,   by   reducing  barriers   to                                                               
participation erected  by language,  physical disability,  or the                                                               
complexity of the  technology.  She emphasized  the importance of                                                               
protecting  the  confidence  of  the public  in  the  results  of                                                               
elections,  by  ensuring  that voting  technologies  may  not  be                                                               
rigged  in  a  way  that  would  thwart  the  true  will  of  the                                                               
electorate.    She  said  [AkCLU]  recognizes  that  touch-screen                                                               
voting  systems do  offer tremendous  potential advantages.   She                                                               
noted  that, as  Representative  Gara  had previously  indicated,                                                               
electronic  voting is  helpful to  people  with disabilities  who                                                               
can't  operate a  manual  lever.   Furthermore,  for people  with                                                               
visual impairment, there are cards  that can be inserted into the                                                               
machines that will read the ballot to the voter.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 0415                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RUDINGER noted  that the  ballots can  be made  available in                                                               
other languages, which  she said could be helpful to  some of the                                                               
elders in the Native villages  of Alaska, whose languages are not                                                               
even written.   Conversely,  she noted that  an Alaska  Native on                                                               
[the AkCLU's] board  of directors raised the point  that there is                                                               
not a familiarity  with technology and "these  computers" in many                                                               
of the villages, and people might  be more wary of going to vote,                                                               
even  if the  machine is  promoted as  giving the  ballot to  the                                                               
voter in his/her language.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. RUDINGER  pointed out that  the existing statutes  make using                                                               
the machine  optional; therefore, the  state could hold  off from                                                               
their  use to  do  further testing.    Notwithstanding that,  she                                                               
stated  that if  the  legislature sees  fit  to authorize  "going                                                               
ahead with  these machines"  and the  Division of  Elections sees                                                               
fit  to  use  the  machines  in  2004,  then  [AkCLU]  cautiously                                                               
endorses HB  459.  She  said [AkCLU]  recognizes that HB  459 may                                                               
help people  feel better  about the integrity  of the  process by                                                               
giving the voters the opportunity  to verify that what prints out                                                               
of the  machine is the intended  vote.  However, she  stated that                                                               
voter-verified paper  balloting is  also untested.   She revealed                                                               
that  computer experts  have pointed  out that  "we may  find out                                                               
voter-verified paper  balloting doesn't  ensure the  integrity of                                                               
the election at all."   She said [AkCLU] has serious reservations                                                               
regarding  both the  effectiveness  and the  practicality of  the                                                               
proposal.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 0561                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. RUDINGER continued as follows:                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Elections would resort to  using a voter-verified paper                                                                    
     trail  only in  the case  of  a recount  or a  contest,                                                                    
     which  a  hacker  can  prevent   or  deter.    In  most                                                                    
     jurisdictions,  recounts  are  triggered only  when  an                                                                    
     election is close.   So, anyone who is  savvy enough to                                                                    
     hack  into  a digital  system  and  alter the  election                                                                    
     results  could simply  select a  margin of  victory big                                                                    
     enough to  prevent a recount  or discourage  a contest.                                                                    
     And, in  these jurisdictions, a competent  hacker could                                                                    
     block the review of any paper ballot.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RUDINGER noted  that even  in those  few jurisdictions  that                                                               
automatically do a recount of a  small percentage of ballots as a                                                               
test, a sophisticated fraud could  thwart detection by corrupting                                                               
the code  for the paper  printout.  She  said that brings  her to                                                               
her second point:                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     The  voter-verified  paper trail  could  be  used by  a                                                                    
     sophisticated hacker  to give  voters a false  sense of                                                                    
     security  that their  vote was  correctly tallied.   If                                                                    
     the computer code is genuinely  vulnerable to attack, a                                                                    
     competent hacker  could not only compromise  it to make                                                                    
     the  machined record  a  fraudulently  vote, but  could                                                                    
     also  compromise  the  code   that  runs  the  printer,                                                                    
     causing  the printer  to  display  the voter's  intent,                                                                    
     while  the  machine  records something  different  than                                                                    
     what the voter intended.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MS. RUDINGER  also pointed out  that there's no reason  to assume                                                               
that paper  recounts are more accurate  than machine tabulations.                                                               
Paper is notoriously difficult to  handle and easy to manipulate.                                                               
Counting  the  paper  ballots generated  by  [machine]  would  be                                                               
subject to all  of the historical problems  associated with paper                                                               
ballots, including human error, fraud, and mishandling.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0672                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RUDINGER stated  that [AkCLU]  believes that  voter-verified                                                               
paper  ballots  should  not  be employed  until  there  has  been                                                               
rigorous testing  of their reliability.   She added that  it also                                                               
feels  that  way  about  the electronic  voting  machines.    She                                                               
suggested that  two years from  now, everyone might  realize that                                                               
[HB 459] did not protect the election [process] at all.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0700                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MS. RUDINGER offered recommendations as follows:                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     If DREs  [Direct Recording Electronic  voting machines]                                                                    
     are  to  be employed  ...  in  2004, ...  the  computer                                                                    
     source code for all  security critical functions of the                                                                    
     machines should  be subjected to  thorough, independent                                                                    
     review.    And  when  we  say  independent  review,  we                                                                    
     definitely mean not people who  are selected ... by the                                                                    
     manufacturers of the machines.   ...  At a minimum, the                                                                    
     full  code  should  be  subjected to  a  review  by  an                                                                    
     independent  body,  and  only  open  source  codes  ...                                                                    
     should be used for tabulating the results.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Number  two, rigorous  physical security  measures need                                                                    
     to be  instituted to ensure  that the machines  and any                                                                    
     associated paper  ballots are not compromised.   Third,                                                                    
     election  officials need  to be  thoroughly trained  in                                                                    
     their   use,  ...   [as  well   as  in]   the  physical                                                                    
     infrastructure  necessary to  ensure  their  use.   For                                                                    
     example,  sufficient  electrical  wiring  needs  to  be                                                                    
     "assured."  This could be  challenging in some parts of                                                                    
     rural   Alaska   where   the   infrastructure   doesn't                                                                    
     currently exist to implement these machines.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Fourth,  the  jurisdiction  should  have  a  permanent,                                                                    
     broad  base  security  task  force  or  oversight  body                                                                    
     representing all interested  segments of the community,                                                                    
     to evaluate the potential for  fraud or error in voting                                                                    
     systems,  and to  address the  new security  challenges                                                                    
     that will inevitably  arrive in the future.   That task                                                                    
     force should  have complete unrestricted access  to the                                                                    
     DRE   code,  and   [it]   should   conduct  [its]   own                                                                    
     independent testing.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Fifth,  election  officials  should  select  technology                                                                    
     that   gives  them   maximum   flexibility  in   taking                                                                    
     advantage  of emerging  innovation.    In other  words,                                                                    
     whatever we  buy today should  be adaptable to  what we                                                                    
     decide  we really  need to  do tomorrow  to ensure  the                                                                    
     integrity of  the election.  If  a jurisdiction chooses                                                                    
     to employ optical scan or  a method other than DREs for                                                                    
     its  balloting,  it  should   be  required  to  have  a                                                                    
     sufficient number of  electronic DRE machines available                                                                    
     to accommodate the needs of  people with disabilities -                                                                    
     because we  do recognize  that that  needs to  happen -                                                                    
     and  they should  employ systems  that can  accommodate                                                                    
     the needs of language minorities.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 0564                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  WEYHRAUCH  asked Ms.  Rudinger  if  she would  submit  the                                                               
remainder of her testimony in writing.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS.  RUDINGER  explained  that  she was  reading  "from  a  white                                                               
paper,"  but  she  offered  to  create  a  summary  of  what  her                                                               
testimony and send it to the committee.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 0897                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
JOHN DUNKER, testifying on behalf  of himself, stated he supports                                                               
[HB 459]; however,  he admitted that some of  the testimony gives                                                               
him pause about "employing it rapidly."   He said he had hoped it                                                               
would have  an immediate effect  and that might prevent  the next                                                               
election cycle from  being the only one in  "our" history without                                                               
a paper  trail.   He added,  "And I  think that  is still  a good                                                               
thing."                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. DUNKER  said he would  like to  see the bill  strengthened to                                                               
include  mandatory testing,  "similar to  what [the]  Division of                                                               
Elections has described  in response to your  9 March questions."                                                               
He mentioned  performing on the  AccuVote process.   He indicated                                                               
that he  wants mandatory testing  and random recounts,  either by                                                               
district  or precinct.   He  said,  "I believe  those should  not                                                               
hinge  on a  percentage difference  of vote  outcomes, which  may                                                               
make sense  in a paper voting  system.  But I  think it's evident                                                               
that  that sort  of a  percentage difference  threshold does  not                                                               
make sense with electronic voting."                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DUNKER  concluded by  saying  that  the process  isn't  good                                                               
enough if it  only satisfies technocrats.  He  said [the process]                                                               
must maintain the confidence of every citizen.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 1023                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG  reiterated that  he is  concerned about                                                               
implementing  this  system  at   all  until  these  problems  are                                                               
addressed.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 1049                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  WEYHRAUCH  told  Representative Gruenberg  that  he  would                                                               
eventually  be  offering quite  a  substantial  amendment to  the                                                               
bill.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
[HB 459 was heard and held.]                                                                                                    

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